Conservative Truth - Notes on the Current Anarchy in America - Manny Sarmina

Something to think about, as we silently watch the lawless hordes of Maoist-like Red Guard Brigades across our country tear down memorable items of history:

"...If it is possible that historical interpretation of a piece of culture can change, it is surely wrong of us to act as though we are at 'the end of history' and can or should eliminate an entire category of material evidence for past life that we will never be able to recover. If we eliminate these Confederate statues, we deprive our descendants of the ability to consider them in their own right, and we would be doing it not through sentimentality but under the arrogant and preemptive assumption that our interpretation of these statues is final and must be binding upon future generations."
Gregory S. Bucher, formerly professor of classical and Near Eastern studies at Creighton University.

[The following include comments and thought-out responses from Manny Sarmina gleaned from the above post on Facebook. Though it can be said that arguing on Facebook and the Internet is generally a fruitless endeavor similar to beating your head against a wall, there actually can be some worthwhile discussion and even some valuable learning that can happen. I guess part of it depends on who your friends are. I have not 'edited' these, but rather have copied them verbatim, with very few changes, except to correct obvious mistakes for meaning. Mistakes are theirs, not mine. Editor - PH]

LM (a FB 'friend' of Manny):
It weird that you guys fight so hard for these confederate statues. They are history and should go in museums. They should not be out in public squares where everyone has to see them. They do not mean the same to me. They remind me of people who wanted to keep my ancestors in slavery. It’s very painful for me and people like me to have to walk by them. It would be like putting up statues of hitler and his generals forcing Jewish community to walk by them and face their painful past.

Manny:
First, a correction: I’m not “fighting so hard” for anything. I’m simply offering a “different perspective” on this issue. One that’s being drowned out by loud reactionary forces in the aftermath of an event that virtually everyone in the country - white, black, brown, red and everything in between - has roundly and unequivocally condemned. Because with all due respect, your perspective, however compelling it may be, or however much I respect it, isn’t the only one. We still live in a free and democratic society, although sadly it’s becoming less free, as evidenced by the growing number of people who are paying a heavy price for deigning to think differently.

Second, no one I know is proud of every aspect of every chapter in our history, this one included, though every chapter has helped to make us a better country. But anyone who argues that the Civil War had everything to do with slavery is just as wrong as the person who argues that the war had nothing to do with slavery. The causes of the war are just too complex to reduce to such a simplified version. On that note, as student of history, it’s totally unfair, and illogical, to judge history from 150 years or 500 years and pass judgement on what the people living then did, or believed, without knowing or fully understanding the world they lived in; what their values were or the social mores of the times, and then apply an entirely different set of standards and values. Unfortunately too many people want to hide from history, or worse, re-write it for their own purposes. They show little interest in learning about it, and from it; the good and the bad. They have every right to want to hide from history if they want to. But it appears they want to hide history from others, and that’s what’s so wrong with what is happening.

Third, you claim confederate monuments and memorials should be in museums and not in public view; and that’s a fair point even if I disagree. But that isn’t what’s happening. They’re being torn from their bases - illegally, and unilaterally - and destroyed, or defaced, by angry mobs reminiscent of the French Revolution and Mao’s Cultural Revolution...add this to the growing number of cases involving movies being banned, people losing their jobs, or being publicly shamed, or banned from social media, even cartoon characters and TV shows being “cancelled”...speaking of Nazi Germany. I should think you’d be able to see such behavior is demonstrably more dangerous and threatening to the country and our democratic way of life than any century old statue. That being said, if the sense of a community is have these memorials removed, that’s their prerogative, and I would respect that decision. (That’s how hard I’m fighting for these statues.) But it ought to be done legally, and through the democratic/legislative process; not by the actions of an unruly, out of control mob.

Lastly, this isn’t about Nazi Germany, or Hitlers generals, that’s a specious argument. And no one is being “forced” to walk by anything. But if you truly equate 1860s America with 1930s Nazi Germany, I invite you to take the time to read President Eisenhower’s 1960 presidential proclamation commemorating the Civil War’s centennial celebration. Written by the same general who did so much to liberate Europe from Nazi Tyranny.

Last point, perhaps the most important: we have real issues in this country; serious problems to address. One of them is race relations. But there are many more. And yet here we are...with a growing number of people more concerned about tearing down statues and changing the names of Army bases, banning movies and going after people who think differently, than we are focusing our collective energies to try to solve far more consequential problems. I’m not sure how tearing down any statue, or banning any movie reminiscent of Nazi Germany, is going to improve anyone’s lives, not least of all the most disadvantaged. We may all feel better, but all it does is further divide us. We should all see that. So if equal justice for all is the goal - and it should be - we’re wasting a lot of valuable time, and energy.

P.S. Not everyone who fought for or supported the South during the war supported slavery.
Approximately 3/4 of the soldiers who fought for the confederacy didn’t even own slaves. They didn’t go through four years of pure hell because they wanted to keep your ancestors in slavery. As I said it was much more complex than that.

The North was far from blameless. Few ever mention that, or even know it. Indeed, the majority of the population in the North cared little that 4 million human beings were kept in bondage in southern states. [Out of a population of around 33 million. Not least of all Northern Democrats who represented the interests of the northern merchant class...that was getting filthy rich off the sale of cotton and other southern staples. In fact the abolition of slavery wasn’t even a war objective at the start of the war. If you were an abolitionist you were considered a radical, an extremist, a provocateur. There were comparatively few who would admit they were abolitionists out loud.

If a white person living today had actually lived in 1850 it’s a very high probability that same person would hold views similar to the vast majority of the white population who lived during that time, both North and South: blacks were “socially inferior to whites; less intelligent; less disciplined;” and therefore were “probably better off being slaves.” You and I know that’s pure nonsense, and certainly racist, but in 1850 that was the prevailing social norm. That’s the world they lived in. This isn’t to excuse what happened, or to condone it; it’s to understand it. Because when we come to understand, it helps us to better appreciate the incredible progress that's been achieved. We can and must achieve more if we find a way to work together rather than tearing each other apart. If Mr Floyd’s death helps us to become a more just nation, then he will not have died in vain. That’s my hope anyway.

LM:

I never said every person in the South owned slaves. I was owning my feeling about those statues and how they make Black Americans feel. I don’t think they should be destroyed but I don’t think I should be forced to see them either. Thx for sharing. I hope some good can come out of George Floyd’s death, because there’s been too many

I never advocated for erasing history. Put the statues in a museum and people can go and study them all day long. Walk in my shoes. It not right to force me to walk by those statues everyday and be reminded of a painful past

it’s sad that our nation has come to this. We have no compassion for anyone else. Today, if I don’t agree with you, you are my enemy and you must be destroyed. I think the entire civil war should be preserved in a museum so it can be studied. It shouldn’t be on public display causing pain for a portion of the population.

Manny:
I disagree. Strongly. That would be a terrible mistake to simply “hide the Civil War in a museum” as you’re suggesting. The Civil War made us who we are as a nation, both good and bad. The problem is few Americans know much about the Civil War, and they understand even less. History isn’t something to love or hate. History is something to understand, and learn from. And based on the indiscriminate defacing of a statue of Lincoln and the memorial to the 54th Massachusetts in Boston, a a black regiment who fought for their own freedom on the Union side...we can see the sheer ignorance and complete lack of underdressing of knowledge of history of some these people in the streets who are taking matters into their own hands...Is that really the country you want to live in? How is this making anything better? It isn’t. It might feel good. But that’s about it.

[There are various other bunny-trails, side stories, and comments to be found in this post-thread, and they are typical. But here are a few more worthwhile comments...]

Manny:
Tom makes a very good point: If those statues are so painful to you and to other black Americans....then how can over 90% of black voters, who reliably and without question, support year in and year out the political party who supported and defended the institution of slavery and did so much after the war to deny blacks their constitutional rights right up through the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960’s...not also be painful???? I should think it would be demonstrably “more” painful, to be associated with a political party with such a long and shameful legacy of systemic racism...than a statue in a park.

Which, if you think objectively about it, might explain why democrats have worked so hard to push this false narrative that the “parties switched sides.” It’s textbook deflection away from their own history. Instead of confronting it, and acknowledging it, democrats seek to hide it. Just like those statutes.

AG:
I don't need to see Hitler and Goring Statues. Is Germany that much more advanced than we are? Or does Slavery and the way Black people were treated not embarrass us enough?

Manny, to AG:
So you equate R.E. Lee to Hitler and Goering? Seriously? Think about that a little more.

And sorry...I’m not embarrassed by the sins committed by others. You can be. But you won’t see me groveling on my knees begging for forgiveness...for something I didn’t do, didn’t countenance, and wasn’t responsible for, like we see so many white virtue signaling liberals doing. I have zero white guilt. Groveling and virtue signaling might feel good. But it isn’t solving a damn thing, except trying to prove that you’re not a “racist.”

What I can do, is recognize, as I do, that slavery is a part of our history, acknowledge that it was an evil institution that divided the nation and led to the deaths of over 600,00 Americans; that it will always remain a stain on our history, and that it was in conflict with the bedrock principles embodied in the Declaration - that “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...” - but also acknowledge, and recognize, and be proud of, that it was those “same bedrock principles” which allowed us to “right the wrongs of the past” and move forward toward a building a “more perfect union.” Because the history of slavery can really be summed up in one simple statement: “some Americans defended it, and other Americans stopped it.” And the nation paid a terrible price, and indeed it still is.

So we can keep fighting and bickering and blaming and shaming over the sins of our fathers, or we can learn from the past and move forward together to build a better country for all Americans regardless of race, color, creed...it’s the best way we can honor the struggles and successes and sacrifices of a great many courageous Americans black and white, who did their part to create a “more perfect union.” Because while the union will never be “perfect,” that doesn’t absolve us from our responsibilities to our communities, and county, and to one another, to defend the principle of equal justice before the law for every American.

[more yak-yak, yada yada...]

Manny:
And I do appreciate that others have well-founded concerns about the confederate statues. It’s just the historian in me...that makes me believe it’s a mistake to discard our history. Even the painful parts. I know others feel differently. I would never suggest “if you don’t agree with me, then...fill in the blank.” But we should decide these issues rationally, and thoughtfully.

Thomas Jefferson wrote that “...the earth belongs to the living.” I think he was on to something. It’s for us to decide. If I thought tearing down those memorials would solve anything that would benefit anyone I’d likely be all in. But where does it end?

The White House and Capitol Building were built with slavery labor. Do we tear these down?

How about the Jefferson and Washington Memorials? Or their plantations, Mount Vernon and Monticello? Both men were large slave owners. Because that’s where we’re heading. In my opinion.

JC, to AG:
unlike many of us, Manny is well educated and very articulate. Like many of us he has children, or maybe grandchildren and is deeply concerned about the future of the greatest, most benevolent country in the history of the world. I applaud him for taking the time to try and inform people about what’s happening, because the mainstream media and liberal professors don’t. Thank you for finding time for us Manny!

JC, to Manny:
Manny you’re one smart dude. I learn a lot from your posts and assuming OK for you, will copy for future reference—and will cite my source! God Bless you brother. Keep up the fight—people need to be educated, it’s way more serious than most realize. I have a grandson I fight for.

Notes on the Current Anarchy in America

June 15, 2020